Marriage Conferences
My wife and I, along with her first husband and his new wife, would like to invite you to our first marriage seminar. The name of the Seminar is the same as the soon-to-be-released book:
What Divorce Taught Us About Marriage
It may seem odd–divorced people talking about how to have a better marriage. It seems odd to us as well. But, failure has a lot to teach about success. That is why, if you look in the business section of any Barnes and Noble’s you will find a number of books about what failure has to teach business about success. One is John Maxwell’s excellent book, Failing Forward. You can learn more from studying the black box data after one crash than you can from observing hundreds of hours of safe, level flying.
We have four basic things to say:
- Divorce is painful. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. There is a reason God hates divorce. In the seminar, we will discuss why. I hate it too.
- Divorce is possible. It can happen to you. The Bible says, “Don’t be so naive and self-confident. You’re not exempt. You could fall flat on your face as easily as anyone else. Forget about self-confidence; it’s useless. Cultivate God-confidence.” 1 Corinthians 10:12 (MSG)
- Divorce is preventable. This will be the heart of the seminar. It could happen to you, but it doesn’t have to. We will offer practical lessons learned from the pain of failure as to how to have a better marriage. Some of the things we will talk about include 1) How to have the conversation you really need to have, 2) How a little thing like being too busy can kill love, 3) How a “How hard can it be?” attitude can kill you. If you haven’t read a book on marriage in a while, it has been too long. 4) How love at its best is a little bit selfish. You read that right. We will show it to you in the Bible.
- Divorce is passing. All pain is passing. It came to pass, and it will pass. In one of the ironies of life, my wife’s ex-husband has become my best friend. The four of us spent a good part of the evening comfortably talking about the details of the seminar, which explains why I can’t sleep tonight. I am too fired up!
Here are the details. We actually have two conferences scheduled.
March 22
Edgewater Church
St. Augustine, FL
7.00 – 9.00
Josh and Missy Speaking
March 27
First Baptist Church
Palatka, FL
Introduction in the worship service
Evening conference; times pending
Josh, Missy, Chris and Cindy
First let me say that i am a divorced man. My first wife left me for our next door neighbor so I understand the pain process. I understand the rejection. I understand the emotions that you two expressed last night. I, too, have spent years studying, praying, and learning from my divorce. Since my divorce, I have become a Registered Nurse and specialize in Psychiatric Nursing.
I have not read your book yet, but I will. I did have some reservations about the seminar though. It was heart-breaking to see the pain that still exists with both you and Missy. I do believe that you both are well intentioned but you are terribly misguided. You and Missy have taken way too much responsibility for your respective divorces. You spoke of the “50 ways to improve Josh plan”. You talked about how your ex hated that you read. You spoke about how she felt unloved. Ok, all valid feelings but not reasons for divorce. She was aware of who you were when you married. Missy spoke of how her ex felt unloved; of how if she had done things differently or how she could fix the relationship. I went through those same emotions. “What did I do wrong?” “What could I have done differently?” “What was wrong with me?” By taking on so much of the blame, you and Missy have watered down their sin. You both have made excuses for them. Short of physical or emotional abuse or infidelity, they sinned. Period. Were you and Missy perfect? Not even close. But, sin begins in the mind. Love is a choice. Somewhere along the line you decided that you didn’t love your ex anymore and you now can love Missy. They (the ex’s) chose to stop loving you. People don’t stop loving their parents or their children or their dog. So why would they stop loving a spouse, unless they start looking elsewhere and start thinking… what if? Your ex may not have had another man in mind, but I can say with almost certainty that she was watching a friend’s marriage or several other couples and thinking that THAT looked better than what she had. Missy’s ex put himself in a position to be tempted. Like David, at a time when kings were at war, David was on his rooftop watching Bathsheba. Infidelity is a planned sin. There has to be groundwork laid. Your ex and Missy’s ex and my ex were extraordinarily selfish. They weren’t happy as they did whatever they wanted to make themselves happy. They were willing to crush you and Missy and psychologically scar their children to do what they wanted. Nothing mattered to them but their sin. It was SIN!! Do not water it down with “if’s”.
Am I saying not to forgive? Absolutley not!! Forgiveness is absolutely necessary. But… forgiveness does not mean restitution. It does not mean that everything is normal. Moses was forgiven but was still not allowed into the Promised Land. David was forgiven but never used of God again. I still see too much pain. I understand that you and Missy’s ex are friends but seeing how you and Missy reacted everytime you both spoke of your ex’s and doing the seminar together, it seems forced. It is as if you are becoming friends because you think that is what God wants you to do and maybe that is God’s plan but the emotions are still too raw. I feel that instead of a seminar, you and Missy need counseling and need to not only forgive but to heal. The message I got from last night was that if I go through a divorce, I need to figure out what I did wrong, forgive my ex and be friends with all parties involved. Forced friendship is not friendship. You may be taking the high road or being the bigger man but if you are having to repress pain, then it is not wise.
It just seemed that most of the time was spent telling your stories and not enough on how to prevent divorce. The last two sections on how to argue and warning signs was good but there was no time spent on if your ex’s asked for forgiveness, if they were contrite and tried to make amends. Has Missy’s ex’s new wife still abandoned her children in Louisiana? I hope and pray that I have not offended you in any way. That is not my intention. I feel for you both. I have been there and know what it is like. It is a hard and painful road back from a divorce. I have often said that leaving a spouse is more cruel that killing them. If you kill them, you spare them the pain of rejection and all the pain of divorce and recovery. Infidelity is the cruelest thing I can imagine because not only do I have to feel the pain but my children have to go through it and other family members and I have to watch those that i love suffer also. I will be reading your book. I will be praying for you both. It is a brave thing that you are attempting.
I see your point. I don’t mean to say our divorces were all our fault or that if we had behaved perfectly this wouldn’t have happened. However, I do think the better of a husband I am the less chances of a divorce. It is like locking your doors. It doesn’t prevent thieves; it does lower the chances you will get robbed.
To me, to walk away from a failed marriage and not ask what I did wrong would be arrogant and, well, stupid. We all do things wrong. That is a given. Wise is the man who figures out what they are and tries not to repeat.
We don’t mean to say becoming good friends with the exes is normal for everyone. Forgiveness is required by God, but I see your point that forgiveness doesn’t mean we become friends. In our case we did and I do think it is an interesting testimony to the forgiveness that is possible.
We were more than a little frustrated with the shortness of the time. We wish we had more time to share all thing things we have learned. That is why we have a book and a blog.
We may have displayed a lot of pain at the conference, but I can honestly say we don’t live that way day in day out. In a way, as communicators, we want to communicate the pain and we have to experience it again to communicate it.
As to counseling, I have spent a lot of money on counseling, and, for me personally, I didn’t get much out of it. I know this is not everyone’s experience.
Josh, your first four bullet points are OUTSTANDING and worth re-posting here:
1.Divorce is painful. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. There is a reason God hates divorce. In the seminar, we will discuss why. I hate it too.
2.Divorce is possible. It can happen to you. The Bible says, “Don’t be so naive and self-confident. You’re not exempt. You could fall flat on your face as easily as anyone else. Forget about self-confidence; it’s useless. Cultivate God-confidence.” 1 Corinthians 10:12 (MSG)
3.Divorce is preventable. This will be the heart of the seminar. It could happen to you, but it doesn’t have to. We will offer practical lessons learned from the pain of failure as to how to have a better marriage. Some of the things we will talk about include 1) How to have the conversation you really need to have, 2) How a little thing like being too busy can kill love, 3) How a “How hard can it be?” attitude can kill you. If you haven’t read a book on marriage in a while, it has been too long. 4) How love at its best is a little bit selfish. You read that right. We will show it to you in the Bible.
4.Divorce is passing. All pain is passing. It came to pass, and it will pass. In one of the ironies of life, my wife’s ex-husband has become my best friend. The four of us spent a good part of the evening comfortably talking about the details of the seminar, which explains why I can’t sleep tonight. I am too fired up!
I’ve not read your book nor have I attended one of your seminars on What Divorce Taught Us About Marriage. Would you please send me a copy of your book as soon as possible with an invoice?
I do NOT think that you’re terribly misguided in your idea of letting people know what you’ve learned from being divorced! Your attempt in sounding the warning about the sin and pain of divorce (ala Ezekiel 8 and Ezekile 33) reminds me very much of the rich man in Hell who begged Lazarus and/or Abraham to go back and warn his brothers to choose to stay out of Hell! You’re correctly telling people that divorce is a choice that will lead to a living Hell on earth, a choice that can be avoided!
I agree with what I understand Mister Greg to say that feeling rejected because the spouse reads too much and feeling lonely because the spouse feels unloved are NOT valid reasons for choosing to be divorced! Allowing one’s feelings rather than one’s will to run the train of life is much like allowing the caboose to chart the course for the engine!
Since I’ve not read your book and/or participated in your seminar on learning from divorce, I may be making a mistake here. I don’t give two whoops in torment about how a person feels when they get married. I’m MUCH MORE concerned about their ability to understand the commitment part of marriage! i’ve NEVER performed a wedding in which both parties didn’t feel like getting married. I have performed a half-dozen marriages where the commitment that was given verbal consent wasn’t there to begin with which led to divorce being an option to consider. If you’re not emphasizing commitment as one of the two lynch pins of marriage (with the second lynch pin being a relentless pursuit of trying to have the mind of Christ) your missing the boat in your book and your seminar on what divorce taught us about marriage.
I’m pretty sure that the pain of your divorce will be with you for the rest of your life just as the pain of Moses striking the rock and the pain of David lusting, aduleterating, and murdering stayed with them for theirs. The fact that youre willing to be transparent and authentic in using your pain to warn others not to choose Divorce Hell is something that I join Mister Greg in commending you for your bravery!
Mister Greg is also correct in that forgiveness and healing is a VERY essential part of what your life needs to be if you’re going to continue to warn others to choose to avoid Divorce Hell. My guess is, Mister Josh, that the mind that God gifted to you is one that very linear, task-focused, and sequential, all very good traits in a personality UNLESS that linear, task-focused, sequential mind puts you into a position of being able to say, “As to counseling, I have spent a lot of money on counseling, and, for me personally, I didn’t get much out of it.” One gets out of counseling what one invests in it. Just as physicians must figure out what anti-biotic is best suited for one’s individual medical history, age, and depth of illness, the person in need of counseling would be wise to keep looking for a counselor who can help produce health.
May I invite you to re-visit the idea that counseling may be good for you but only if working to receive the health that counseling can afford is something that you’re as willing to pursue as you are willing to pursue your reading?
“To me, to walk away from a failed marriage and not ask what I did wrong would be arrogant and, well, stupid. We all do things wrong. That is a given. Wise is the man who figures out what they are and tries not to repeat.” EXCELLENT STATEMENT!
It IS a brave thing that God is leading you to do! I have EVERY reason to think that your efforts at trying to challenge people to stay away from Divorce Hell while pushing them to work hard at improving their marriage puts you into a position that God will bless.